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#372149 - 02/12/11 01:40 PM Re: so, any public sector workers about [Re: YellowBadge]
YellowBadge Offline
MountooningTipster

Registered: 26/08/07
Posts: 11640
Loc: here
approx 30+ years ago public sector pay was so low compared to similar private sector that the government was forced to give a massive pay rise across the board, my dad got it and it was something like 15%.
This year also starts the three year pay freeze for us all.
Interestingly while I am not massively paid as promotion is not something I am interested in, in this current financial climate for the first time ever in my 27 years service I find that I am almost on the average UK salary

let's keep the debate friendly
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#372150 - 02/12/11 01:51 PM Re: so, any public sector workers about [Re: YellowBadge]
Micky Offline
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Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 11552
Loc: Westbury-on-severn, Gloucester...
Quote:

all correct, however you can exercise your right to buy the freehold but only when you have bought 100% of the leasehold, typically you buy the leasehold in stages so you might buy 50%/75% of it first in return for this large discount though you also pay quite a high monthly rent. Negative Equity can also have a bigger impact on SO houses.




We never had the option of buying the freehold. Checked every piece of paperwork we had with a fine tooth combe.

Quote:

lease premiums and increases are all listed in the actual Lease which should be read fully by the purchaser/solicitor.



Again not mentioned in any of the documents we had. We got our rent increase removed because it was nowhere in the documents. But it is something to be aware of!
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#372151 - 02/12/11 03:35 PM Re: so, any public sector workers about [Re: Stu.]
Stephlar Offline
I am the ephmeier

Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 8643
Loc: Northamptonshire
Quote:

Scotty- your first comment was one of the most naive I've seen on this topic. I agree with you that the government made a lot of job titles that didn't need to be made, but why should teachers and police etc pay the price for it? Would you want to be picked up by a 68 year old paramedic? No I don't think so. How can you expect me to teach children to an outstanding standard at the age of 68? A 68 year old police officer? My dad was a police officer and completed his 30 years service saved countless lives and put a lot of criminals behind bars. I teach over 300 children per week and as already stated I could earn 4 times as much babysitting these children privately but I choose to work for the council. A hugely physically and mentally demanding job which carries a huge responsibility. I pay over £400 a month to the tax man and national insurance, and your telling me I shouldn't strike to make a point in protecting my and my family's future? Get the facts straight and opinions open before you slate people just because they work in a different industry to you. You chose to do what you do like all of us, but I'd gladly invite you to do my job for a week and see if your ill informed opinion changes then!




I must say that from my experience in the nursing profession, those approaching their 50s and 60s are now reducing their hours, not because they want to, but because they are struggling to cope with the long hours. I work 12.5 hour shifts, not accounting for travelling time. My typical day starts at waking up at 6am and not returning home until sometimes nearly 10pm. I am supposed to have x2 30 min breaks per shift, but often don't get the second one because I don't have time to - patient care comes first. As for finishing on time, if the unit suddenly becomes chaotic due to a new admission or transfer, none of us will simply walk out because it is time to finish the shift. Therefore I work several hours per month for free - time owing is almost unheard of in our profession. I know of a few teachers who are working unpaid overtime - is that the same for you, Stu? As for the tax man and national insurance, I paid well over £700 this month
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#372152 - 02/12/11 08:12 PM Re: so, any public sector workers about [Re: Micky]
YellowBadge Offline
MountooningTipster

Registered: 26/08/07
Posts: 11640
Loc: here
Quote:

We never had the option of buying the freehold. Checked every piece of paperwork we had with a fine tooth combe.




Again not mentioned in any of the documents we had. We got our rent increase removed because it was nowhere in the documents. But it is something to be aware of!




Housing Act 1985 grants the right to buy FH. The Lease is the main title deed, your conveyancer would have had sight of this and it would have ended up with your bank for security under a mortage, this deed would contain Staircasing Provisions to purchase further shares, here also would be mention of final share purchase and option to buy FH.
Rent increases are also written into the terms of the Lease, usually states so much for first X years, so much for next X years........based on a statutory formula, they can not be anywhere else.

You would have executed the original lease and copies are available from various sources.

Would be a standard form of SO lease as set by the law society.

All in the past now, some bad times there.
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#372153 - 03/12/11 01:38 PM Re: so, any public sector workers about [Re: Stephlar]
Stu. Offline
Site Supporter

Registered: 15/03/09
Posts: 4538
Loc: Manchester
Quote:

Quote:

Scotty- your first comment was one of the most naive I've seen on this topic. I agree with you that the government made a lot of job titles that didn't need to be made, but why should teachers and police etc pay the price for it? Would you want to be picked up by a 68 year old paramedic? No I don't think so. How can you expect me to teach children to an outstanding standard at the age of 68? A 68 year old police officer? My dad was a police officer and completed his 30 years service saved countless lives and put a lot of criminals behind bars. I teach over 300 children per week and as already stated I could earn 4 times as much babysitting these children privately but I choose to work for the council. A hugely physically and mentally demanding job which carries a huge responsibility. I pay over £400 a month to the tax man and national insurance, and your telling me I shouldn't strike to make a point in protecting my and my family's future? Get the facts straight and opinions open before you slate people just because they work in a different industry to you. You chose to do what you do like all of us, but I'd gladly invite you to do my job for a week and see if your ill informed opinion changes then!




I must say that from my experience in the nursing profession, those approaching their 50s and 60s are now reducing their hours, not because they want to, but because they are struggling to cope with the long hours. I work 12.5 hour shifts, not accounting for travelling time. My typical day starts at waking up at 6am and not returning home until sometimes nearly 10pm. I am supposed to have x2 30 min breaks per shift, but often don't get the second one because I don't have time to - patient care comes first. As for finishing on time, if the unit suddenly becomes chaotic due to a new admission or transfer, none of us will simply walk out because it is time to finish the shift. Therefore I work several hours per month for free - time owing is almost unheard of in our profession. I know of a few teachers who are working unpaid overtime - is that the same for you, Stu? As for the tax man and national insurance, I paid well over £700 this month




Totally agree Steph, and yes it's exactly the same for me! As a PE specialist I obviously have to do a lot of school sport as an extra to my PE teaching time. Most of which is out of school hours. My working hours are 8am-4pm but 4 days per week I run before school cubs (Basketball, Football, Fitness, Tchoukball) which start at 7:15 so I don't get paid for this. 3 days per week I also run after school practices for school sports teams, those sessions are from 4-6. I have 2 lunch duties per week and 3 break time duties per week as per the school regulations. I very rarely get time to have a break most days, get time for a quick lunch which is about it. I also have school fixtures for Basketball twice a week and football EVERY Saturday none of the above I get paid for! At least 4 hours work on a Saturday morning for no pay whatsoever, but I don't complain about it as I do it for the kids that I teach, it's for them, not me! And before someone says "Yeah, but you signed up to do that", yes I did and I love my job, but I also work had and don't wish my hard earned pension to be spent by the government. And before the "you get lots of holidays" argument comes out, October half term this year I was away with a school tour for our new pupils, last easter I was in Paris with a school tour, feb I was away in America skiing with school, previous October I was in China with school and the previous easter I was in Florida again with school. Although this sounds like brilliant holiday time,each trip I have been responsible for the safety of 40 children at least. THAT IS NOT A HOLIDAY. I was working during all those trips and no I didn't get paid anything extra to my salary. I roughly do 20 extra hours per week that I don't get paid for. School holidays......if I'm away with school which I am every half term or end of term, that's 14 x 24 hours that I'm on duty x 8 weeks over an academic year that I don't get paid for in addition to that already mentioned.....you do the maths!
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#372154 - 03/12/11 01:43 PM Re: so, any public sector workers about [Re: Stu.]
Alex_H Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 15061
Loc: SE London
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Scotty- your first comment was one of the most naive I've seen on this topic. I agree with you that the government made a lot of job titles that didn't need to be made, but why should teachers and police etc pay the price for it? Would you want to be picked up by a 68 year old paramedic? No I don't think so. How can you expect me to teach children to an outstanding standard at the age of 68? A 68 year old police officer? My dad was a police officer and completed his 30 years service saved countless lives and put a lot of criminals behind bars. I teach over 300 children per week and as already stated I could earn 4 times as much babysitting these children privately but I choose to work for the council. A hugely physically and mentally demanding job which carries a huge responsibility. I pay over £400 a month to the tax man and national insurance, and your telling me I shouldn't strike to make a point in protecting my and my family's future? Get the facts straight and opinions open before you slate people just because they work in a different industry to you. You chose to do what you do like all of us, but I'd gladly invite you to do my job for a week and see if your ill informed opinion changes then!




I must say that from my experience in the nursing profession, those approaching their 50s and 60s are now reducing their hours, not because they want to, but because they are struggling to cope with the long hours. I work 12.5 hour shifts, not accounting for travelling time. My typical day starts at waking up at 6am and not returning home until sometimes nearly 10pm. I am supposed to have x2 30 min breaks per shift, but often don't get the second one because I don't have time to - patient care comes first. As for finishing on time, if the unit suddenly becomes chaotic due to a new admission or transfer, none of us will simply walk out because it is time to finish the shift. Therefore I work several hours per month for free - time owing is almost unheard of in our profession. I know of a few teachers who are working unpaid overtime - is that the same for you, Stu? As for the tax man and national insurance, I paid well over £700 this month




Totally agree Steph, and yes it's exactly the same for me! As a PE specialist I obviously have to do a lot of school sport as an extra to my PE teaching time. Most of which is out of school hours. My working hours are 8am-4pm but 4 days per week I run before school cubs (Basketball, Football, Fitness, Tchoukball) which start at 7:15 so I don't get paid for this. 3 days per week I also run after school practices for school sports teams, those sessions are from 4-6. I have 2 lunch duties per week and 3 break time duties per week as per the school regulations. I very rarely get time to have a break most days, get time for a quick lunch which is about it. I also have school fixtures for Basketball twice a week and football EVERY Saturday none of the above I get paid for! At least 4 hours work on a Saturday morning for no pay whatsoever, but I don't complain about it as I do it for the kids that I teach, it's for them, not me! And before someone says "Yeah, but you signed up to do that", yes I did and I love my job, but I also work had and don't wish my hard earned pension to be spent by the government. And before the "you get lots of holidays" argument comes out, October half term this year I was away with a school tour for our new pupils, last easter I was in Paris with a school tour, feb I was away in America skiing with school, previous October I was in China with school and the previous easter I was in Florida again with school. Although this sounds like brilliant holiday time,each trip I have been responsible for the safety of 40 children at least. THAT IS NOT A HOLIDAY. I was working during all those trips and no I didn't get paid anything extra to my salary. I roughly do 20 extra hours per week that I don't get paid for. School holidays......if I'm away with school which I am every half term or end of term, that's 14 x 24 hours that I'm on duty x 8 weeks over an academic year that I don't get paid for in addition to that already mentioned.....you do the maths!




Thats a lot of non-paid work! Well done to all teachers and nursing staff

Quote:

Tchoukball




Quick Google.... Oh right
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#372155 - 03/12/11 11:00 PM Re: so, any public sector workers about [Re: Stu.]
Adam08 Offline
Site Supporter

Registered: 15/10/08
Posts: 15118
Loc: Harpenden, Hertfordshire
Quote:

Scotty- your first comment was one of the most naive I've seen on this topic. I agree with you that the government made a lot of job titles that didn't need to be made, but why should teachers and police etc pay the price for it? Would you want to be picked up by a 68 year old paramedic? No I don't think so. How can you expect me to teach children to an outstanding standard at the age of 68? A 68 year old police officer? My dad was a police officer and completed his 30 years service saved countless lives and put a lot of criminals behind bars. I teach over 300 children per week and as already stated I could earn 4 times as much babysitting these children privately but I choose to work for the council. A hugely physically and mentally demanding job which carries a huge responsibility. I pay over £400 a month to the tax man and national insurance, and your telling me I shouldn't strike to make a point in protecting my and my family's future? Get the facts straight and opinions open before you slate people just because they work in a different industry to you. You chose to do what you do like all of us, but I'd gladly invite you to do my job for a week and see if your ill informed opinion changes then!





Right I will be a 68 year old electrician climbing in and out of lofts all day, what's your point?
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#372156 - 04/12/11 11:05 AM Re: so, any public sector workers about [Re: Adam08]
Stu. Offline
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Registered: 15/03/09
Posts: 4538
Loc: Manchester
My point is my pension is being changed and my goal posts have been shifted. You have the choice to retire anytime you want as you work for yourself and or a small company. You can pay in tax what you declare, I can't do "foreigners" for cash, and don't say you don't! As already described above I do a huge amount of unpaid work for the good of the young people I teach and it's unfair to expect me to do that whilst reducing the pension that fund! It's my money that I contribute so why should I get less than what I put in? That's my point!
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#372157 - 04/12/11 02:54 PM Re: so, any public sector workers about [Re: Stu.]
YellowBadge Offline
MountooningTipster

Registered: 26/08/07
Posts: 11640
Loc: here
It is a contract, we chose to work for the government for lesser money but better conditions, the government is the biggest employer and without it the country would not work equally we can't all be paid similar to the once private sector, the wage bill would be unpayable. Fact is we signed a contract that is now being changed without our consent. Paying in more, well not a problem, no choice will have to find it, but to make us wait from 60 to 65+ to get what we were promised at 60 is just wrong. Like the changes in 2003 should be for new employees only but as I said I would except the extra but not the retirement age.
Anyway the anti public sector workers and Peter Hitchen at the mail today have convinced me we are worth sh*t and provide nothing, so I am going to save £75 a year and not but it anymore, I hope some people are made redundant at the mail.
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#372158 - 04/12/11 03:36 PM Re: so, any public sector workers about [Re: YellowBadge]
Stu. Offline
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Registered: 15/03/09
Posts: 4538
Loc: Manchester
Agreed Steve!
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#372159 - 04/12/11 09:00 PM Re: so, any public sector workers about [Re: Stu.]
Adam08 Offline
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Registered: 15/10/08
Posts: 15118
Loc: Harpenden, Hertfordshire
Well no I will retire when I can afford to retire

And the goverment will always change what they want, you can't seriously enter a contract with the goverment and think they won't shift the goalposts, because they can, and they will as they like, whether its right or wrong doesn't come into it

I don't think you should have to pay more or get less, but I can understand them changing the age
And yes they should make it only for people signing the contract now as well.... it is a contract
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#372160 - 04/12/11 09:16 PM Re: so, any public sector workers about [Re: Adam08]
Stu. Offline
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Registered: 15/03/09
Posts: 4538
Loc: Manchester
Quote:

Well no I will retire when I can afford to retire

And the goverment will always change what they want, you can't seriously enter a contract with the goverment and think they won't shift the goalposts, because they can, and they will as they like, whether its right or wrong doesn't come into it

I don't think you should have to pay more or get less, but I can understand them changing the age
And yes they should make it only for people signing the contract now as well.... it is a contract




Right or Wrong doesn't come into it? Come on mate! Of course it does, it's wrong and that's why there are wide spread strike actions! They can't just change a contract at all under any circumstances it should be fazed in over a number of years to new employees, not existing ones why should we foot the bill for the bank and government mess?
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#372161 - 04/12/11 09:51 PM Re: so, any public sector workers about [Re: Stu.]
Adam08 Offline
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Registered: 15/10/08
Posts: 15118
Loc: Harpenden, Hertfordshire
Who else is going to foot the bill for it? The banks? No. The goverment? No. The little man in the street? Hell yes

VAT is up to 20% who does that affect the little man in the street, doesn't affect the goverment or the banks, or people with plenty of wonga

The goverment will be able to hold out longer than people can afford to go on strike, why fight a losing battle there will be changes, most people I have spoken to have been against the strikes and people will get pretty pissed off at not having their bins collected, their children at school, people dying due to ambulances not going to people who need them and it won't be the goverment people get pissed off at
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#372162 - 04/12/11 10:03 PM Re: so, any public sector workers about [Re: Adam08]
Stu. Offline
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Registered: 15/03/09
Posts: 4538
Loc: Manchester
Ridiculous argument and I'm not getting involved in it, to say the public sector should foot the bill which is effectively what you are saying is a joke. And again having a pop at us for striking and children couldn't go to school etc etc is even more laughable.
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#372163 - 04/12/11 10:22 PM Re: so, any public sector workers about [Re: Stu.]
Scotty Offline
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Registered: 27/02/04
Posts: 18100
Loc: Nuneaton, Warwickshire
Sorry guys... negative or not... The topic is hugely political and I will express my view. Not going to fall out with anyone lol... Just how I think.

Teacher is no more stressful then an Electrician as adam said or a Software Developer like me. I have huge stress coding and meeting tight deadlines for business's critical things. I also work over (unpaid) pretty much every day.

Sorry but the world is simply in economic meltdown. The Euro "will" faulter sooner or later and it will cause a much larger recession or even depression to the UK and possibly world... Dark times ahead. Why should I feel sorry for you guys paying more when this is both my job and your own job at stake?

There is no money... Simple... Something has to give. Your pension contributions or job? Which is it?
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