ST def handles a lot better than the clio but the clio is quicker off the mark

i havent driven 1 but my mate has the 182 and hes driven mine and he says the st has alot better handling plus hes tried to keep up on the bends a few times and i always get him on the corners

have you driven one ? lol

I went from an ST to a 182. Then from a 182 to a 197 R27.
That was back in October time. Sold the R27 as we needed 2 cars so now own a 1.4 Fiesta Climate and a (don't laugh), MG ZS180 - 2.5 V6.

My original review on the change can be found here:
http://www.fordfiestast.co.uk/showflat.p...=true#Post95920

My views haven't changed. I maintain that a standard 182 will be quicker than an ST.

The thing with the N-ring times being a second within each other doesn't really matter. Unless they were driven by the same person on the same day/conditions it doesn't truly make for a good comparison.

Its all very well saying you beat xxx on a 'B' road but driver skill plays 90% of that, not the car. I am sure someone in a 1L polo could keep up with me if don't value their life.

Anyway, I love my ZS. I am addicted to the V6 roar. Handles as well as the others hot hatches I have had (50mph easy on my test bend).
Ok, the image might be challenging to some but its British!!!

21mpg is not great either but thats because I do short journeys.

Wonder what I will get next year. Got to be a V8 or turbo'd (mmmmm mustang).

Anyway, the Fiesta is probably going in September (only had it 2 months) as my wife said it wasn't fast enough and wants a clio 172 or 182 again.

clio's suck balls.

Well, there is a nice informative, un-biased review for you.

I think you should go on the fordfiestanetwork webpage.

197 and 182 are quicker standard no doubt,, they are also more expensive to insure and tax and a dam sight more unreliable and badly put together. All the time I owned a Renault I saw faults commute from one model to the next as they used the same crap parts, and Renault never ever address the issues they just deny they exists.

just one example (I could give oh so many) the temp sender or loom failure that causes the car to run rich and cut out,, that just went on year after year and Renault did jack about it.

I still say get an ST spend about 1.5k to get a bit more BHP and it will wipe the floor with the Renaults.

Also where do you buy tuning parts for a Clio??? most of the companies I saw on renaultsport turned out to be a bunch of second rate cowboys that I would not allow near my wheel barrow. With ford you get Cosworth, Mountune and a host of other top quality tuners to deal with, Renault are just not in the same league for this.

Do not be tempted by figures on paper as being the best reason to buy as the Renault will only bring trouble and breakdowns,, trust me the ST is the better bet long term no doubt about it.

I can probably show just as many posts from people with Fiestas (or any Fords) that have had problems. In fact, last year I saw a Fiesta pull over on the motorway and then catch fire while the driver ran from it as fast as they could!

French build quality is always going to have this stigma attached to it much the same way as Skoda has with there image. Even with all the clever advertising there are still people saying "urgh, its a Skoda". People will always say "oooh, Renault build quality". If they were that bad, they wouldn't be in business would they.

Can't argue with Insurance and Tax though but when you get towards 30, the difference between a group 13 and 17 car is about £50 a year I have found. Tax, well, ahem, skip that one for now.

Why buy a ST and spend 1.5k on it to try and keep up with a 182 (what would 1.5k buy anyway, exhaust, filter and coilies maybe which would get you about 10 bhp). You won't get that 1.5k back at the end of it so that pays for you tax and insurance.

I am not having a go at the ST, I owned one remember and loved it. I still look at the white ones with blue stripes and think they look great but I know from back to back ownership of the 2 cars, the 182 was the better car.

Still, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Look at Revels, I love coffee but 40% of the voters want it gone according to the current poll results!!! I want Maltesers to go. If I want Maltesers, I will go and buy a packet of them.

When someone asks should I buy this or that the best idea is to go and test them both and see which one you like most. And remember, forums are 19% general banter, 80% people with problems that want to know how to fix something and 1% saying "I love my car and nothing has gone wrong with it".

I have had back to back Renaults both brand new a 182 and a V6 and both went back for warranty work on more than one occasion,, it’s not stigma it’s a fact that Renault build quality is very poor.

I know for a fact the 172 had rear dampers fail engine mounts fail and temp sender problems that caused the car to break down. These exact same problems then appeared on the 182 and still Renault made no effort to solve or even accept there was a problem

My brother bought a 182 at exactly the same time as me in 2004 (it was his daft idea and I foolishly agreed),, he still has his and so far he has had all of the above problems plus flashing warning lights constantly appearing on the dash (again quite common).

this is not isolated if you do know your Renaults then you will know the faults I have just listed were common to many owners. Years ago I bought two fiestas one I kept for six years and had NO problems the other I kept 13 years and did 150,000 miles and it was only a 1.1L and it also was perfect no warranty issues ever.

I was a mechanic for 28 years and I am not in the habit of nit picking and looking for little faults but the Renaults were riddled with problems,, I think quite often Renault owners won’t admit too many of the faults because they don’t want to admit their car is crap which is fair enough.

the 197 is quite new give it three years or so and I bet the same old faults start to get talked about and become common.

that’s just my honest opinion,, I would never buy another Renault.

The 197 is amazingly well built - ive driven a lowly 1.2 - and thought it was exceptionally well screwed together.

I think the 182 however is a quicker car - even in the corners (but negligibly so) i reckon though that your average driver could drive the ST quicker through corners as it gives you plenty more feedback and confidence.

The ST is a better package though, the interior feels special and looks special on the exterior, whereas the clio looks like any other clio with two exhuasts. Also the interior is dire - horrible driving position too! The ST is 4 insurance groups below it - so i can insure it much more cheaply and in my opinion, the better car for day to day driving.

The fiesta though is well built, but the older renaults are screwed together by cheese eating bitter french communists. :P